It’s not a case of speedkills vs ranks. My guild kills the boss normally in 2 separate raids and no Visions happen.
Even if it was, it’s not for “you” to decide whether you go for speedkills or DPS ranks, then, that’s the guild’s choice, and it sucks to not -ever- have the option to parse over 95th percentile as a DPS which is especially lucrative because of the +20 points thing. Removing it was, for DPS at least, a good decision.
There’s nothing competitive about a boss where the premise for you getting any sort of parse at all is that you are one of the few who enter Visions, and there’s a ton of fast-clearing guilds who don’t even get to do that, they lose the fight before it’s even begun. It’s not like we lost a huge performance differentiator in Kilrogg for DPS, it’s a faceroll nuke at this stage and if Visions didn’t exist, it would just be a speedkill race when it comes to DPS too which also sucks for guilds that are not clearing very quickly but may have capable players. The difference is that you can 95th percentile as almost any DPS spec on any boss without any particularly fast kills, so people who are not speedkilling are not getting the short end of the stick in NEARLY the same degree, hence why Iron Reaver is not being excluded… Kilrogg, you couldn’t.
For healers, IDK, could bring it back if it’s fine for healers. But for DPS… It should stay gone.
You can earn the bonus points with no cheesing. 95th% mage parse is 98k. 95th% hunter parse is 95k. There are people who have ranked above those numbers (in the case of hunter even way above that number) for both of those specs with no cheesing whatsoever.
None of these are with people AFK, though the top one is with a very bad group. Other ones are with a very competent guildgroup and I’ve 99th percentiled that.
There is nothing competitive about a boss where the premise for you getting any sort of parse at all is that you are in a guild that has 15 mages. It’s not for you to decide if you bring in/gear/recruit them, that’s the guild’s choice.
At no point were rankings about “fair indicator of skill”, they weren’t fair indicator of skill when people /roll’d for who gets to kill adds on Immerseus, Sha, Galak, Naz, they weren’t fair indicator when top parser were flamethrowers on brackenspore, they weren’t fair when people decided who can dps hands on kro so you don’t break out too soon, etc.
This is the compelling point for me. Saying “Well it’s controllable and anyone can do it” is false. Anyone can’t do it, because in order to do it, you have to get your entire guild’s buy-in. No other boss has that barrier just to getting a 95% rank. HFA and HFC do not have that barrier and you can attain 95% with good play with no cheesing. Kilrogg is the only boss where you simply can’t.
Then I think a better proposal would be to just lower the threshold at which bonus points are calculated.
In any case, if it really is an irredeemably bad fight for DPS, that’s fine, but it certainly isn’t for healers. In that regard, I think it’s important to consider roles when invalidating a boss for scoring consideration.
I would say that’s not true for HFA as a healer. It’s quite impossible for me to do really any healing whatsoever during that encounter if all the DPS are at their keyboard. It may be the case that not slowing down can still yield a DPSer 95% with consistency, but I would argue strongly that it’s not the case in the healing arena.
*Edit: It was certainly true on progression that good play could net you a 95% as a healer. I don’t think that’s true anymore, you really have to invent ways to take damage if everyone is blasting away as they do.
I would make an argument that having 4 arcane mages do < 25% (in addition to one of them being 652, with a rogue being 631) isn’t exactly “very competent, non afking”
Right, but the whole point of the new system is it reduces the benefit of cheesing dramatically. Someone who cheeses will end up 5-10% ahead on the boss rather than 50% ahead on the boss. That was the whole motivation for this revision in the first place. Cheesing is still rewarded, but it will no longer severely punish people who don’t cheese.
The issue with Kilrogg specifically is that the “messed up” portion of the rankings, instead of only being <1% of the parses (as it typical for normal cheese scenarios) is more like 5-6% of the parses, and so - even with this new system - people are being punished dramatically even when they perform well, since they can’t earn the bonus points.
Essentially as long as the bonus points are earnable, the amount that a cheeser can pull ahead is somewhat limited, but if the bonus points aren’t earnable even with perfect play doing the boss the expected way, then there’s a problem. That’s my issue with Kilrogg (and for any other bosses where you can prove to me that the bonus points aren’t attainable without severe shenanigans).
I agree and disagree. You certainly have more control than say a guild building a roster with 5+ Mages (which is why you see this occurring at a rate of 5-6% and not a rate of <1%). Additionally, the player in an average guild whose kill time is longer than a player in a top guild is still play well to achieve a high parse. It’s not as if they become invincible and can stand still blowing up the boss similar to how some of the players in high ranked guilds do. Regardless, someone making use of the Visions to kill the boss as Blizzard intended shouldn’t be punished just because the ilvl inflation is so excessive that good guilds kill him prior to the mechanic. That operates under the assumption that Blizzard intended for that mechanic to be out-geared… which I think is an egregious and erroneous assumption.
Maybe a better solution is to exclude Vision parses for rank position and rank % consideration. Bonus points could be earned off the #1 non-vision parse (and being in the top 5% of non-vision parses). That does kind of mean anyone who does visions would instantly get 120 points.
I don’t see why :
a) bonus point calculation can’t be dropped lower (90th %)
b) only specs that have that issue be excluded
c) simply “invalidate” vision parses for those/all specs from points (similar to tri-trinket shenanigans)
d) just let those specs have 120 points if they do the vision.
e) divide dmg with the buff by the str of the buff so that only “padding” is getting to dps on the adds downstairs
I feel like removal of the boss (along with weighted scale for bosses) sets up negative precedent.
