Hi, Big fan of the New formula for calculating allstar points. Does a good job of minimizing the differences between people cheesing. As an example I have a 40s iron reaver that puts me fairly high on the allstar for feral druids for that particular fight, In the old system it earned me up to 30-40 points more than someone else who has played exactly as well as me on that fight but has a lower kill time. It also reduces the range in the top end. I.E. the fact that the rank 1 could be almost 100k more dps thank rank 2 meaning that rank 2 was getting 70 odd points while rank 1 was getting the full 100 points. All in all big fan of the new formula.
Less of a fan of weighting particular bosses though but all in all new formula is a tremendous improvement.
Yeah, comments like that are pretty unintelligent. Standing still on a rune of power and playing an arcane mage for 15 seconds totally makes you the most skilled dps in World of Warcraft. Clearly amazingly pro and ā5x better than all those nubsā.
The new all stars is so great because your ranking on a class-by-class basis will still be similar, and youāre working on your rank, climbing the ladder still this way. It also means that direct point-by-point comparisons between classes are more fair now and at least have some level of merit.
As far as only the end boss, my stance would remain the same in principle, but having a weighting like that was just stationary no matter what the current tier/end boss was I think would be more fair. I guess Iād just ask why at that pointāthe end boss isnāt always the hardest boss (although yeah it usually is), and even if the end boss is the hardest by like a difficulty metric, it wouldnāt mean that weighting the end boss that way will always be the way to go given the state of player parses (e.g. the ff boss you mentioned). But personally yeah, would definitely be more comfortable with less weighting.
I also like the planned revision that allowing cheese to still happen and get a few bonus points, doesnāt absolutely destroy everyone elseās score. I agree that if a player can get into ālegendaryā status of 95%, thatās when the bonus points can start to be applied.
As for the weighted bosses, Iām not sure thatās a great idea. Sure, random encounters like High Council and Fel Rage can suck to wait until you get it to get a higher parse, but itās not too bad. As for Kilrogg, I liked to rotate players that I sent in on my raid once it was on farm to allow them a decent parse. Didnāt mean we went out of our way to cheese it for them, but allowing each raider a chance for the buff and to blow stuff up is part of making sure everyone has fun too.
tl;dr - I like the new formula that includes bonus points to help bring cheesing in line, but not a fan of weighting bosses on mechanics.
(1) There is no need to weight end bosses more. The proposed revision actually makes end bosses harder to get max points on, since using rank position makes things more competitive. In other words getting 95% on the 1st boss of a tier is a joke, since you can just show up outgearing everything and place high. Getting 95% on A8S or Archimonde though is much harder to do, and so there is already a built-in ramp up in difficulty.
(2) This new system is actually more skill-based than the previous. The previous system allowed cheese on one boss to give you an inflated score even if you did worse on other bosses. The new system, by locking bonus points behind 95%, WHICH IS HARDER TO ATTAIN ON LATER BOSSES, is actually going to allow the best of the best to pull even more ahead on bosses that matter.
Take for example my best Archimonde Mythic, an 85% rank. With the old system I get 77 points out of a possible 100 (since Archimonde is not particularly susceptible to cheesing). With the new system, I get 85 points out of a possible 120. With the new system, I just lost points on the harder boss because I have not attained a 95% percentile on that boss.
For me the main change of the system itĀ“s fine , about % bonus both ways (95/99) are fine , i have 12/13 bosses with 95%+ but only 5 with 99%+ with this second choice iĀ“ll get less bonus points but it can be used as a challenge to improve my ranks on that bosses to gain that bonus.
About the first bosses like HFA itĀ“s harder to rank on it with overgear than completing it with 730 ilvl .
Any release date to the new system at WoW page? Thank u for u hard work.
It has been since the last evening on eu and just change few hours ago to the old system again. LetĀ“s wait to Kihra to enable it again and on all stars ranks.
Iād like to add that the scaling system you suggested for cheese bosses, which you suggested some months ago and I supported at the time, should not be scrapped merely because itās somewhat arbitrary and indeterminate. Sure, having Kilrogg be 25 is not necessarily exactly what it ought to be, but that doesnāt mean having it at equal weight with other bosses is better.
When āPlayer Damageā rankings are selected, yes, all of the All Stars blocks are going to show damage all stars score. If you select āPlayer Healingā rankings, then youāll see healing All Stars score.
Thatās actually what I thought since I saw some tabs being hidden in other categories. At first I just forgot I was in āDamageā by default when opening up all-stars. Thanks!
That seems fine to me, I still think of it being x/100 and not x/120. Sure, some parses I may end up over 100 if I do well. And if Iām not able to perform as well on later bosses, I may fall behind some.
With the current scoring system that wouldāve been pretty amazing, with the new proposed one though? Doesnāt seem to make that much of a difference. The scores are already gonna be normalized so outliers due to certain mechanics arenāt going to be that far ahead (~5-20 points).
Except we could also argue that fights like Council with rng mechanics e.x Fel Rage can be a little bothersome for those that wants to push to the very limit and get them extra points (under normal circumstances ofc). In which case weighting starts helping out.
I hope Blizzard doesnāt create more cases like this in the future.
edit:
An aggressive way I thought of to deal with those mechanics could be to counter the bonus % modifier players get from said mechanic, e.x Look who gets Fel Rage or stacks of vision and remove that extra damage/healing during said period, ignore uptime on fights like HFA and use aDPS instead, etc. This seems like extra trouble coding side though (could just apply to rankings like the weighted damage is calculated right now).
Iām definitely a fan of the new system. As someone who has had the ability to take part in speed kills my numbers are definitely inflated past what the average player should be at. This system does a good job at both still allowing Speed Kill ranks to be relevant but not giving them a monopoly over a normal kill.
I agree with what you said about later bosses not being weighted purely because they will be innately harder to get a āgoodā rank on. I feel like weighting bosses just because of their instance position would be exaggerative. I do agree though that bosses with niche damage increases should be weighted differently somehow. Maybe not in the total point difference but in how you reward points? I feel that giving different totals would introduce confusion at a glace. Maybe Iām wrong on that. I could just see people glancing and not understanding why they have a R1 on Killrog for example but only getting 80 points when their R1 on Zakuun is getting 120. Maybe Iām not giving people enough credit there.
Calculating bosses like Kilrogg where a huge damage bonus is introduced for select players is important in my opinion. To get a 95th P you need to do 401k DPS when 75th P is 221k DPS (Looking at current mage ranks). With that said I donāt feel like Council is that important though because the difference between 95th P and 75th P isnāt as noticeable(~60k jump compared to ~180k for Kilrogg). Mainly because fel rage, though you could definitely consider it necessary for R1, you wonāt see the same effect as Kilrogg down-phase. Not getting fel rage on council is much less of a deal then not going down on Kilrogg. Maybe implementing a threshold for damage difference between 95th P and 75th P and scaling based on that would be effective?
This turned out to be more rambling then I predicted initially. All in all I really like the change and whether you scale certain fights or not this proposed solution is easily the best Iāve seen to date.
Really glad weāre heading down this path. While there may be minor tweaks here and there, the bulk of this has been a huge improvement and im really looking forward to seeing how it all shakes out.
Iām not fussed on whether there is or isnt scaling for the last boss. I guess it can be quite arbitrary, and i can see valid arguments both for and against.
Hmmm, I do like the system however I feel it is not necessary or beneficial for fflogs in any way - looking across you will see the discrepancy between cheesed parses and non cheesed is incredibly marginal, and honestly not an issue in the way it is in warcraftlogs. Damage numbers at the top end do not have the large variation of others.
Also, as a8s has very low clear numbers for many classes, this creates an issue of parses with only 0.1% difference (or lower) giving 2-3 less points due to percentile score.
Iām going to say that looking at my own scores and at some others I think itās reasonably fair and the balance between rewarding cheesed kills while also ensuring that all ānormalā kills arenāt made absolutely worthless due to ridiculous parses on particularly cheeseable fights (i.e. 99th percentile giving you 30 or less for Reaver, HFA, Iskar) is good. In the case that some people are unhappy about the balance it can always be tweaked by adjusting the 100 points cut off mark & also the bonus multiplier.
