Hivemind drone damage removed?

Anyone noticed all the hivemind logs got messed up today? Says drone damage removed, but it still appears to be ranking class damage against a full parse with drone damage…

I assume this is a bug.

Reports are being recrawled now to remove some things. Will take a few hours.

Was this damage left off because it makes the calculations easier on the servers? Cause sometimes I understand leaving certain things out, but I don’t think in this cause they should be left out because the whole time they have been in and now all of a sudden there out? Anyway just wondeting! James

Hi, why do you do this ? This will not change the fact, that top 1000 dpses on hivemind are mostly fire mages… With this move you punish all the players that need to play the drones. In our raid with have 3-4 dds, who are explicitly geared and specced for the drones. You destroy their logs by this move. Now this dds in our raid will never have the possibility get better logs than lets say gray, max green.
Or do you think that drone damage is not important ? If you think so, play this boss on mythic and just dont kill the drones… Good luck surviving :slight_smile:
Very Very strange move by you, punishing all players responsible for the drones.
Why ?


Agreed, I would understand removing drone dps if it was needless pad, but priority nuking these adds is actually a requirement. By filtering these you have put doing proper fight mechanics at odds with clearing the boss.

As a DH I need to spec single target to parse well now??? The only notable cleave damage on this fight is the drones. But I lose the ability to prioritize damage on single targets to help take those out faster… Granted you don’t need the whole raid nuking adds.

You can already actively filter to see who his doing priority damage to the boss, reaver or darters. Seems arbitrary to lock out ranking with a whole segment of necessary damage removed…

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What is the reason for this move ? Why ? Please say something… You destroy the logs for many classes and firemages will still stay at top. Now even more than before… Firemages stay at the main target, always… The others make the mechanics… So after this change firemage logs will be even more on top.
Perhaps the warcraftlogs team plays all firemages… This would explain this.

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The drone that transforms into a ravager is still included. Only the damage to the drones that don’t transform is removed. People were starting to allow them to heal to just stay alive, and we usually take action against adds like those when that starts occurring (similar to General Nazgrim adds that healed way back in SoO).

You never need to switch directly to drones, nor do you ever need to build a spec just to aoe drones. They have virtually no health and die to passive cleave.

Ok, i do not raid in a top guild. We NEED to have 2-3 ppl specced for aoe to kill that drones fast. There are a lot of things, that top guilds are doing just for logs, but why do you punish low to mid end guilds for that ?
Why do you decide that this is unfair ? If they survive without killing the drones, then this is something that blizzard should change, dont you think ? Blizz should not only make them heal but also some kind of enrage. This service here was intended for measurement ? Wasnt it ? But you change the way logs are recorded. Why ? If the drones survive, then ppl make more damage, thats the way it functions. Why do you decide if this is intended ? Thumbs up to all groups, that have enough heal to survive the drones, this should be also rewarded in a better log, not destroyed because most ppl cant do that.
Why dont you also delete all mythic plus logs, where mobs get snapped or ppl pull a mob into boss, just to steal its buff and kill boss faster (yes, 2nd boss sethrallis for mages, they steal the haste buff and use it for themselfes). If you decide what is wrong in raids, why not also in mythic plus runs ?
With your changes you decide what is right or wrong, but if you do it in raids, begin to do it in mythic plus too, this is where more “optimizations” are used, and you say nothing there.

So you punish 95%, because 5% are misusing a mechanic. Thats nice… Thank you

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We take action when the site’s users ask us to. People have been begging for this change for months, and when polled, the majority of users wanted a weighted option (either to fully switch to weighted dps for all 12 bosses, or to do weightings for hivemind, carapace and nzoth). In this case we went with what the majority of poll respondents asked for.

Sorry that you’re in the minority opinion here, but it really should not impact your parsing significantly. Even if you have players devoting a little bit of time to directly DPSing them, you should still be able to parse well.

I just want to say thanks to you and everyone else who work to keep a site like this up.

That being said I am not sure how the poll question was possed or how the community logic went which lead to this solution.

  • I 100% agree that bonus psychus damage was complete fluff and was leading to over-performance of high burst classes who tunneled psychus. The simple solution there is to simply not count bonus damage and just look at raw output against psych so damage to him is in balance with damage to everything else.

That is very different than flat out hiding all damage to a part of the fight which necessarily must die like the drones in hivemind. I suspect the community was just grumpy that firemages look like gods on this fight next to every other class with 0 extra effort. But that is an artifact of an overtuned class mechanic not something wrong with the damage parsing. This seems heavy handed to deal with a small number of groups cheesing a heal mechanic on the drones. Maybe there was a deeper more meaningful reason for the community wanting that particular change.

Out of curiosity though. How can we be sure to be in future polls for changes like this? Is this something that comes out to all members via email? I would have thought I would have seen this, but its possible I wasn’t registered or didn’t notice it if it came through the forums.

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I AM sorry, but I really do not understand the decision to remove the drones from the logs. They are part of the fight and normaly need to BE killed in order to succeed. Why have AoE fights then? By this Logic, you should ONLY count the main boss damage. You say that there are ppl using the drones healing to ramp up the damage. Who Cares? You are harming the classes with better AoE, and benefiting cleave/single target, which already have an advantage on most of the bosses. Obviously, the ppl askingn for this kind of polls Will be the ONLY ones knowing about it and replying to it. Try to make a Poll reverting this situation, to see how it GOES .

The purpose of this and changes that have happened in similar response to cheesing mechanics for logs is to maintain competitive integraty of the rankings feature.

Yes, the maximum potential damage in the logs is reduced but the classes with high aoe still have the dot cleave, ignite damage available to them on the damage that is measured.

so instead of the max recorded rank damage for say a mage being 250k+ it will now be much less and maybe closer to 150k instead. It still doesn’t change the outcome, people will still be able to rank within their class the same way, whilst removing the cheese/exploitative behaviour to push the maximum damage up that people have done.

Which in turn also creates a more level playing field for the players that cant or don’t want to exploit or change their behaviour and get logs. It achieves this by preventing the inflated damage from pushing the ranking brackets apart, which creates less explosive difference between each bracket.

I am polling this particular question in a test of a new site polling system. This should provide much more reliable data than If you are interested in participating, you can see the question when logged in on the site home page.

I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with this move. It is not padding to kill enemies that harm the raid if left alive and don’t completely void out damage done to them because of another mechanic. An actual example of padding are tentacles in psychus phase that heal to full when another one dies or Paragons of the Klaxxi from SoO, again which heal to full when one dies. THAT is padding. Drones in hive mind are not the same and all this does is hurt players not already in the top 95th percentile for this fight, which is basically just fire mages and destro warlocks.

And your point that this change won’t impact parses significantly is extremely poor logic because you’ve haven’t even removed the fights that took place before you made this change. Parses uploaded today are still being compared to parses that took place weeks ago that are still counting drone damage. I mean, if people are really this upset about drone damage in Hivemind parses, shouldn’t all fights recorded before this change be completely deleted and everyone’s parse reset? Or in other words, if you’re saying that drone damage is bad and shouldn’t be counted now, then it makes absolutely no sense to allow others to keep their parse when it was counted.

Also try and consider the less elite groups that don’t have the boss on farm yet. Drones don’t die passively in a timely manner if groups are not fully spec’d into AOE and it’s a real blow and a terrible user experience when it finally does go down only to find that your parse is missing a third of your damage and you only parse in the green. Knowing full well that you would have parsed in blue, purple or maybe even orange if this change wasn’t in place. I mean, not everyone one of us are using a completely broken OP spec like fire mage. Or have insane much two-target cleave as Destro. And this change completely removes any competitive advantage we had on this fight with those specs.

Or in other words, this

Don’t get me wrong, I understand what you are trying to do, but changing this now, after so much time has already been spent in Ny’alotha, after countless parses have already been recorded seems like a knee jerk reaction (with good intentions) that winds up hurting a not so vocoal majority of players . Perhaps this should be something you can do going forward in Shadowlands, but it really doesn’t make sense to do it now.

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Kihra, I am really interested in participating, but I can’t find where it is. I logged in, but no question is showing up. Could you leave a link so that my friends and I could poll?

And btw, is it still possible to see the poll which majority of people agreed to remove damanges done to drones in hivemind? If so, please let me know that too.

Thank you!

The poll questions appear on the front page. You must have linked your and your characters to participate, as I am using that to avoid spam/duplicates etc.

This is false. The partition was completely rebuilt, so all the parses in the partition have had drone damage removed.

I play Shadow and I dot every single drone that comes up, at least I try to.

Last night we got our first kill and I parsed 17%. On my details, I was doing 122k, on Wlog I was doing 77k. It did not count my drone damage at all. We do not have a fire mage, myself and an ele shaman were the biggest damage on the Drones. We were not letting them stay alive, this was our FIRST kill as a guild. We were trying to kill them as fast as possible.

Seeing as trying to kill the drones as fast as possible got me a 17% parse, if I want to parse in the future, it’s better to just ignore the drones and focus getting my damage up on everything else.

I do not understand this change at all. You said you want to protect the “integrity” of the ranking system but by making a change that removes damage from a core aspect of the fight without much consultation you also attack the “integrity” you are trying to defend. Simply put, I do not have faith that going forward I can really believe this ranking system. I should be screenshotting my dps from details and using that because you guys can pick and choose at will what you want to include in rankings and what not.

The better solution would be to ban or remove the people letting the drones heal up. It would be pretty easy to spot by total drone damage done by the group.

I do not agree with this change. This has been apart of Warcraft Logs since inception. People cheese or try to cheese to get top parses. You can simply remove their parse instead of removing a CORE ASPECT of an ENCOUNTER.

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Well, even if the parses uploaded today are relative to the change … The much bigger deal is that players still get to keep their parse and show up on the leader boards (yes this is true), which I guess is what I was thinking when I wrote that. And that’s just really stupid because it’s incredibly unfair. If you are classifying drone damage as a degenerate cheese mechanic undeserving of recognition today, then it absolutely must be considered a degenerate cheese mechanic before implementing this change, and you should absolutely delete every parse you have on record for hivemind going all the way back to the start of the patch. I mean, after all it’s not like the people that killed hivemind last month deserved that parse. According to you, they didn’t. And they shouldn’t be recognized for it … again, according to you.

Note, I’m not trying to be obnoxious about it. But there is just as good a reason to keep drone damage, as not keep drone damage. Also please don’t forget one of the most important use cases for logging raids … which is a tool to improve raid performance. IMO, there is a much stronger argument to keep ALL damage and ALL targets in raid logs because how is a raid lead going to analyze fights if a big portion of it is missing. For example, how will a raid lead know which of their team members are doing unnecessary padding like on psychus phase? Removing any damage (whether it’s hivemind drone or psychus tentacles) for the sake of “parse integrity” means you are trying to prioritize Warcraft Logs as a competitive Leader Board for the elite Cutting Edge, 99th percentile first, instead of what should be a more important goal which is to be used as a tool for everyone else to improve their raid performance.

Anyway, just my 2c

Note you can view unfiltered damage from the report, so analysis is not impacted. There’s a link right above the table to toggle between filtered and unfiltered damage.