all ther classes like mages/rogues/warlocks etc have classrating in allstars and not specrating like heal priests. i understand why feral/moonkin or enhance/elem is exception of this rule but why healing priests? priests already have right numbers in brackets like every other mage/lock but when comes to summary table it shows not by class but by spec. seems its a bug.
I originally had Disc/Holy combined, but I got lots of feedback that the healing style was distinct enough that they should not be combined.
as for me there is no reason not to combine disc/holy. i don’t understand difference disc vs holy compared to affliction lock vs demo lock or frost mage vs fire mage. the reason we have classranking and not specranking is to not have 1300 allstars bm hunter or 1300 frost mage to be top in overal ranking. this logic is broken for priest now and there is no real reason for it except priests want to have free ranks… the 2x priest in rankings is one side of the coin. there is another side - priest who start compete in allstar rankings forced to play in one spec. raid want him in another spec. priest want another spec because another spec is 2x better on this encounter BUT he forsed to stay in same spec and this ruined all logic. mage or warlock change specs on every boss to bring max damage to raid but priest can’t do so - he is forsed to one spec… nobody ask moonking to spec into feral for boss or enhance to spec into elem - everybody understand thats it separate with separate loot etc but healing priest is another story and there is no logic in separation disc/holy…
I agree with you. I got tons of complaints about it though, and I didn’t get them with DPS classes. It might be because this is the only case of healing being combined, or that priests seem to really lock into a specific playstyle.
complains without healthy logic behind is nothing. any chances you revert back and combine priests?
I have remerged these specs. Let’s see what kind of complaints I get.
So, when you say you’ve merged the two specs, you mean to say that Holy is now ranked against Disc in fights where Disc is on top and Disc is ranked against Holy in fights where Holy is on top? Can you explain to me how it works so I can decide if I agree or disagree with this? As it stands now, I think I disagree, the two specs are unique from one another and really don’t conflate much in my mind at all.
*Edit: It is not fixed.
you think that affliction warlock is not enough unique compared to demonology? or why you think that its another story with priests? its main idea of allstar ranking that different specs of same class and same role compete with each other. and priest is not exception because there is no exceptions at all. 1 exception will ruin all idea of playing best spec for each boss.
The two specs are extremely different; what they offer is different, what they contribute is different, and their toolkit is different. It’s far closer to Ele/Enh or Feral/Boomkin, yeah, they both offer damage, but the manner in which they do it is distinct enough to warrant differentiation.
separation of enh/elem and feral/moonking is not because of different spells they use or rotation or anything else. it’s because they loot different items and so cant be competitive in both specs in general case. all what you say can be applyed to warlocks,mages,rogues,hunters too. exactly in same words or even more. demo vs afflict dont have any single mutual spell. priest have flash heal :). demo is exactly aoe spec or burst spec with several trixes for short (under minute) fights. affliction is for single or multy target fights. disc and holy dont have this separation. etc etc.
They may not have direct loot separation, which is something being further mitigated in Legion, but they are drastically different specs in terms of healing they offer. No other healer even compares to the kind of healing Disc does, save Holy Paladin’s mastery. With that thought in mind, don’t even look at Disc and Holy as members of the same class.
What I’m arguing is that you are essentially now comparing a Mage to a Warlock, if we want to use your argument method. Holy and Disc are as distinct from each other as they are from each of the other healing specs.
Edit: “separation of enh/elem and feral/moonking is not because of different spells they use or rotation or anything else. it’s because they loot different items and so cant be competitive in both specs in general case” this is also not why they are separated, at all.
yeah lets make a poll with 100ppl who read this forum who decide the rating of uniqueness of each spec compared to other and if rating is above some value then separate class into two special unique classes! for me demo is 3x more unique compared to affli then disc vs holy. for you seems priests is super unique. may be because you play priest?
I think one way to think about it is like this. During normal progression would most priests suddenly switch from Holy to Disc or vice versa just because their HPS would be slightly higher? I think the answer to that is typically no. The roles are viewed as distinct enough that a Disc priest tends to just be Disc for every boss. The type of healing done (absorbs vs. regular heals) changes things.
If you look at role-based DPS, you tend to get a different answer, i.e., if one spec does a bit more DPS than another on a fight, then most DPS will absolutely switch. This is obviously borne out by the best spec DPS-wise always having more parses than the inferior one.
I don’t think loot/gear is a good argument either. I certainly am not going to combine melee Survival hunters in Legion with ranged BM/MM hunters. Those roles in a raid will be as different from one another as Enh/Ele or Feral/Boomkin even though the same gear could be used.
yes i would never understand separation of melee Survival hunters in Legion with ranged BM/MM hunters as i don’t understand base of this priest discussion. i was 100% sure that Enh/Ele or Feral/Boomkin was separated because of loot and admit that it’s a real reason of separation. seem my joke in previous post about “level of uniqueness” is not a joke anymore because you separate specs only based on this rating in your mind… if it’s so then may be real solution is to make a poll on mainpage asking people to rate uniqueness from 1 to 100 for every spec ingame and then separate it because of people opinion and not because of your vision?
and about why priests don’t change specs for every boss like damage dealers. really. hunters also don’t change specs for same reason. sv or bm is very bad compared to mm. during progression with 4 healers in raid nobody would take holy even it outperform disc because number of healers in raid. disc pries have ability to leach as much heal as he want from other healers and he like this ability. priests play in disc not because raid need these shields or this absorb but purely because they have free win to other healers leaching their heal… i see several examples when reducing number of healers to 2 from 4 even reduce disc hps because with 2 healers he need to really heal and not just leach - so disc have 160hps with 4 healers in raid have 130hps with 2 healers in this encounter with same killtime. you know that disc priest is in reality the most useless healer in raid? it’s easyer to soloheal ot 2 heal with every other combination of healers except disc because disc is just garbage - they have only one ability - leach heal from other healers and it’s all. very rare raidleader understands what i write now - rls see that disc have good numbers and think that it’s a good healer. but it’s not true. for example lets imagine council situation with 3 heal - i paladin have 150k, disc have 150k and monk have 110k. so we decide to 2heal it. it was just impossible with disc - numbers will be 190k+ paladin, 140k disc and the most problem is not a pure numbers but disc priest will leach half of heal during paladin wings and then bring nothing when paladin without coldowns… and is faceroll with monk because numbers wiil be 200k+ pala and 200k+ monk…
The only concern with having them merged, is it’s frowned upon to have more than 1 Disc Priest. Unlike having multiple Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, etc. Since it’s so far into the tier and prepping for Legion, where this won’t be an issue, I myself wouldn’t be too worried about it, but dedicated healing Priests might still prefer the separation.
This hits the heart of the problem. Due to the Weakened Soul mechanic, it is typically inefficient to have more than one Disc in a raid. This means the Holy priest is no more likely to be able to switch to Disc than the Resto druid is. Telling a Holy priest that Disc is the better spec on a fight does no good. Holy and Disc may as well be different classes. As for cases like Enh and Ele shaman, we are talking about comparing ranged and melee. These roles are faced with different raid mechanics on many bosses, it’s not just rotation, gear, or preference.
disc pries have ability to leach as much heal as he want from other healers and he like this ability. priests play in disc not because raid need these shields or this absorb but purely because they have free win to other healers leaching their heal
That’s a really terrible way of looking at it and also just patently untrue. People take Discs because their form of healing is essentially raid utility. Please demonstrate for me instances in which people have 2 healed with a Disc where that Disc did worse than on progression and I will explain to you why that is in a way that isn’t heavily biased.
Sounds more like you had a bad experience with a Disc.