Do you have any plans to seperate the ranking for cheese comps and normal comps?
Is it time to exclude add damage on A9 like you did on the original Faust? The same problem applies now like back then.
Not many groups care for Faust Z where 6 DPS comps are more frequent, however when it comes to real fights rankings become skewed when 6 DPS comps are involved. Essentially it turns into two different brackets considering the difference between #1 A9 (6 DPS) and #2 A9 (4 DPS) is almost one minute.
Care to set the default ranking comp to 4 DPS/2 Tanks/2 Healer and banish 6 DPS comps or give them a seperate tab like “All Bosses”/“In All Regions”/“For All Patches”? Call it “Alternative Compositions”?
While the speed ranking system is a great way to be competitive in a healthy way, irregular compositions kill this competitiveness because they get an unfair advantage VS other team who do not have the same composition as 5 or 6 DPS. The current ranking system doesn’t consider the 5-6 DPS boosting advantage, so separating the two brackets to be for irregular and regular compositions keeps the competitive scene healthy and fun.
Can only sign that. DPS ranking is already getting cheesed enough for not being healthy for group play. So people changed to Speedkills for competition as group and decided it should be done with 4 dps / 2 heal / 2 tanks. (Started back than with Lurcezia doing speedkills and minimum ilv runs). I liked the idea and think its healthy for the Community.
Since Alexander Creator got “easier”, its also easier to cheese is with different, non traditional party composition.
Speed ranking is affected by the 6 dps /1 tank/ 1 healer comp vs 2 dps/ 2 tank/ 2 healer and it feels broken, basically it forces others to go 6/1/1 comp to compete which is not the default comp. This is the same for Faust. Basically the legitimacy for speed ranking is not balanced.
To keep at least the speed kill competitive, implementing this kind of filter would be nice. Default ranking showing standard composition with no doubling up on jobs, and just add a toggle to show non-standard composition.
How about removing double AST, BRD, MCH, etc from Savage rankings as well? It’s not fair for the people who want to compete with normal comps and there’s no way to beat someone with that much cheese, which leads to more cheesing.
I think rankings should only include 4 DPS, 2 Tank and 2 Healers and a max of one of each job (excluding jobs that wouldn’t give much of a benefit from having two like WAR, PLD, DRK, WHM, SCH.)
I think the best solution is probably just to color non-standard comps with a different background, and/or to show # of tanks, healers and DPS in a column next to the ranking. I don’t think it’s particularly fair to people solo healing, for example, to say “Your ranking is not legitimate because you had a pro healer who could solo heal the fight, allowing you to bring an extra DPS.”
If a fight can be solo healed or solo tanked, why wouldn’t you do that? This isn’t “cheese”, this is picking a comp that allows you to get the kill faster. To me, “cheesing” a ranking means boosting someone’s personal ranking by feeding them buffs. It does not mean changing a comp to get a faster kill.
In other words, you can’t “cheese” speed kills. Using the best comp possible to get the fastest kill isn’t cheese. It’s just sound strategy.
@Kihra , why can’t there be a separate tab speed ranking for irregular comps? Right now the speed ranking is encouraging irregular comps and resulting in kicking/subbing your current team members for extra dps spots. Especially since this savage tier is quite easier than the tiers before, therefore going 5/6 dps is doable on most of the turns. As a competitor in speed rankings I appreciate all the effort that has been put by other teams to compete in a regular comp because its harder than 6 dps / 1 healer (2:38 mins fight… can’t be hard at all for most top dps groups) and once cheese groups come out with 5/6 dps and fill the default speed ranking page, why should we upload or compete with 4 dps anymore? Why shouldn’t we keep kicking healers and tanks in our groups to get in other top dps to play instead? It’s extremely demotivating to even post anything on FFlogs because individual dps is cheesed and speed rankings are mostly done by none static members who have been gathered for a sole purpose of 6 or 5 dps. Basically nothing is being rewarded for those who try hard at pushing their limits anymore because its better/easier to exploit the current system.
It may suck a bit that the only way to get a top DPS/Speed ranking for A9 besides add cheesing (which is pretty easy to do if you’re that butthurt about it) is to have a group comp strong enough to clear that fast, but groups should not ever be penalized for playing efficiently.
Isn’t a background coloration sufficient though? You’d be able to see quite clearly that you got a top “standard composition” speed rank, since all the ranks above you with the non-standard composition would be colored differently. I could also provide a standard composition filter as well instead of coloration if that would be preferred. That would give you exactly what you want… a rankings page that shows only standard comp kills.
I take issue with making “Standard composition only” the default though. That makes no sense to me. I’m highly skeptical that anyone is actually kicking people out of their static just to get speed kills. Benching for one fight sure, but healers for example could always take turns on speed kills.
As long as it has it’s own ranking like u said, I think this solves it. This way both regular and irregular compositions groups compete with their own brackets fairly. Both get rewarded for the standards set.
I appreciate you acknowledging the problem with cheesing such as feeding buffs or feeding adds to a single person. As it is right now Player Damage Rankings are not accurate, especially on A9. This turn is essentially the real Faust v2 considering groups afk on this fight until the third add wave spawns so one single person can gain a massive amount of AOE damage on all add waves while being boosted by external buffs. A similiar trend can be seen on certain A12 adds, however that fight lasts a decent bit longer than A9 so it isn’t as widespread on A12 as it is on A9 right now. You did it on the original Faust in “The Fist of the Father” already, would you agree that not counting damage done to adds would be the best solution to have a fair ranking on that particular turn also?
As for the Guild Speed debate, if you would sign up for a Streetball 3v3 competition with your team you wouldn’t expect to go up against a Basketball team of five people. If there is no moderation this whole thing might as well end up like this Google document thing that was around before FFLogs became big. You could upload ACT parses without any moderation so the whole thing ended up becoming a cheese fest and a huge joke. Instead of just having a different background the best way to solve this would to add a different tab similiar to “Guild Speed Rankings” and “Guild Execution Rankings”. Name it “Alternative Comp Rankings” and have the reports that wont agree with certain filters show up there. Noone will say “the ranking is not legitimate because you had a pro healer who could solo heal the fight”, instead the rankings are where they are supposed to be that way and the pro healer can still look at his ranking, in a different bracket. Sounds like the most fair way, don’t you agree?
I am not aware how familiar you are with the community, however when there is talk on streams to take away All Star/Group points by doing certain things/uploading with different groups/statics and such (here and here for example), you need to come up with something to keep the exploiting on a leash. Moderation is needed, considering how professional this site can be and how much potential it really has it would be a shame to let it go down the same way as the Google document everyone forgot about did.
4 MCH… 6 DPS comp cheese is real. They are not in a static, so how can we compete with these people who gather the best and most geared players to get better parses and runs out of the regular comp. Should we do the same to exploit FFlogs?
Irregular comps can experiment and have fun anyway they want but it shouldn’t affect regular comps who do not cheese not their all-stars points/rankings.