# 6 DPS/1 Tank/1 Healer and other cheese **URL:** \ **Category:** FF Logs\ **Created:** [November 22, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896 "2016-11-22T04:07:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mint](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/mint)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/22 "2016-11-26T08:54:23Z")
If you decide to color tainted ranks in the main list please consider a way for players to voluntarily withdraw their own individual parses from the rankings to avoid a tainted best. A separate ranking seems nicer letting players maintain ranks in both categories. Also, I think you underestimate the influence your default ranking page has on the community’s behavior. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kihra](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/kihra/32/1116_2.png) [@Kihra](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Kihra)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/23 "2016-11-26T17:48:20Z")
What about allowing up to 2 of a single job in the standard composition view? I’m a bit concerned about restricting to 1, since I don’t see any cheese in having say 2 tanks of the same job for example. Then again, restricting to one AST would probably cut down on that cheesing. ---
**Author:** ![Kihra](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/kihra/32/1116_2.png) [@Kihra](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Kihra)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/24 "2016-11-26T19:44:04Z")
Note this feature is actually going to be extremely involved, assuming I understand what people want correctly. Basically you want all rankings to be partitioned into “Everything” or “Standard Composition”… in order to do this, I have to allow the same report to produce multiple rankings for the same metrics. This hasn’t been done before, and challenges a lot of assumptions made throughout the code. I have the concept of “partitions”, which has been used in both WoW and WildStar for various reasons, but the idea that a single fight could have ranks in multiple partitions at once is new. That makes this tough. An easier feature would be to just have a new guild speed ranking that was for standard comps only, but not have individual player DPS, HPS, etc. rankings for standard comps only. I suspect that’s not what people are asking for though. Another easy solution would be to actually partition, i.e., instead of “All” vs. “Standard Comp”, the filter would be “Irregular Comp” vs. “Standard Comp”… I could do that… if a fight always goes in a single partition, then the feature is easy to do. I just don’t know how Irregular Comps would feel about competing only with other Irregular Comps. ---
**Author:** ![Yunitera](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/yunitera/32/320_2.png) [@Yunitera](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Yunitera)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/25 "2016-11-26T22:27:40Z")
The first feature is going to take a lot of work indeed and maybe too extreme for the current situation. The focal point here is Speed Ranking segment as it is what everyone is interested in for competition purposes. Although the first feature could possibly solve the individual cheese parses by setting limits to comps. > [@Kihra](#): > > An easier feature would be to just have a new guild speed ranking that was for standard comps only, but not have individual player DPS, HPS, etc. rankings for standard comps only. I suspect that’s not what people are asking for though. > > Another easy solution would be to actually partition, i.e., instead of “All” vs. “Standard Comp”, the filter would be “Irregular Comp” vs. “Standard Comp”… I could do that… if a fight always goes in a single partition, then the feature is easy to do. I just don’t know how Irregular Comps would feel about competing only with other Irregular Comps. Assuming I understood this correctly; these features are more than enough imo, standard comps can compete against each other as a team (personal DPS/HPS shouldn’t generally matter for all stars points regarding speed ranking since the time duration and teamwork is all that matters) It’s only fair that regular comps compete with each other given the same setup 2 tanks /2 healers /4 dps. Irregular comps can just do speed kills for their own amusement with 5 or 6 and get the fastest time they can with whichever comp they see fit. ---
**Author:** ![Marik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Marik](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Marik)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/26 "2016-11-26T22:29:36Z")
Mmm maybe I don’t get it… I think what you’re suggesting in your last sentence could be ok, I mean a fight always go to a single partition so filtering “irregular comp” vs “standard comp”. Would it be hard then to show a third “view” which is “all”, basically both partitions get shown. (Still not the default view of course). As for the limit of jobs per standard comp I think 2 was okay back in 2.0 where there were not that many jobs…nowadays no static bring 2 of the same job…but well, I can see some legit comp thrown out by limiting to 2. Still I don’t know, maybe is ok to filter them out too in a way sort of to “sacriface a few to save a lot” and after all…it would be better for them too not to bring 2 of the same job so we’ll be kinda pushing them to get better 😛 ---
**Author:** ![thinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@thinking](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/thinking)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/27 "2016-11-27T03:28:48Z")
> [@Kihra](#): > > An easier feature would be to just have a new guild speed ranking that was for standard comps only, but not have individual player DPS, HPS, etc. rankings for standard comps only. I suspect that’s not what people are asking for though. > > Another easy solution would be to actually partition, i.e., instead of “All” vs. “Standard Comp”, the filter would be “Irregular Comp” vs. “Standard Comp”… I could do that… if a fight always goes in a single partition, then the feature is easy to do. I just don’t know how Irregular Comps would feel about competing only with other Irregular Comps. Both options would work I suppose. Individual DPS, HPS, etc. rankings are distorted anyway for reasons stated in my last post, Guild Speed Rankings is where the fun was at since it was a fair competition up until a 5 person Basketball team entered a 3v3 Streetball competition. As for how Irregular Comps feel to only compete with other Irregular Comps, it just seems natural to me. If Eminem entered a rap battle he didn’t really expect to go up against Beyonce. A few questions remain though: 1. Can you clean up add damage influence on A9 (Refurbisher 0) and eventually A12 (Alexander Prime) just like you did on Faust in “The Fist of the Father”? Damage done to adds distorts individual rankings by alot of groups if they cater to one single person (aka letting one person do all the damage to adds while the rest of the group goes afk, just like on the original Faust). 2. Can you adress people uploading the same log for different statics, essentially manipulating All Star points? I mentioned it in my last post, for example #1 and #2 on Faust Z is the same log just uploaded on different statics. For reference: [#1](https://www.fflogs.com/reports/GQyAwYpxHPXr8nb9#fight=5&type=damage-done) and [#2](https://www.fflogs.com/reports/cQ8hqnxzB4Cvr7Vj#fight=5&type=damage-done) ---
**Author:** ![Kihra](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/kihra/32/1116_2.png) [@Kihra](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Kihra)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/28 "2016-11-27T03:57:31Z")
> [@thinking](#): > > 1. Can you adress people uploading the same log for different statics, essentially manipulating All Star points? I mentioned it in my last post, for example #1 and #2 on Faust Z is the same log just uploaded on different statics. For reference: #1 and #2 I consider that to be site abuse, i.e., breaking the rules I outlined when adding the static feature. I will ban people who repeatedly do that, so feel free to spread the word. Also, here’s a tip. If you ever see someone doing that, go to both reports and hit the Export button on their Rankings pages. That will make the ranks re-process, and their most recent static will be used. So you can basically combat this yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Yunitera](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/yunitera/32/320_2.png) [@Yunitera](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Yunitera)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:43am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/29 "2016-11-27T07:43:20Z")
Out of sheer curiosity, @kihra when will those changes be visible on FFLogs Speed Ranking if the partitions are made? Could the changes be possibly implemented for this patch? ---
**Author:** ![thinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@thinking](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/thinking)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:43am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/30 "2016-11-27T07:43:25Z")
Alright, good to know. If you are mentioning to just having a new guild speed ranking for standart comps only, that also includes a seperate All Star board for guilds I assume? ---
**Author:** ![Shtola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Shtola](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Shtola)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/31 "2016-11-27T07:50:45Z")
Hi, I use party finder a lot because my schedule makes it really complicated to commit to a group. I often run into non-standard compositions that respect the 2/2/4 class restrictions. I can see why some people are upset with groups having 2 or more identical jobs, but it would be a shame to penalize everyone who’s not able to be part of a regular group from having their rankings separated from the default list just because it was faster to get in a certain instance by going with 2 monks or 2 warriors through party finder. As mentionned above, I think highlighting those rankings would be a good solution, but separating these rankings from the default one might have some serious consequences on Party Finder because your regular players won’t accept having their rankings hidden away for reasons they cannot even control, which will end up in longer wait times or even disbanding. On the other hand, people who are looking for groups obviously go through party finder every week. If their rankings are hidden from the default ranking list, you’re essentially decreasing their chances from being recruited on reddit or through other means, because all the clears that they have had with 2 people on the same job are no longer relevant/hidden from their character page. I think everyone here agrees that 1/1/6 compositions should be completely removed from the default rankings. Let the people who take the time to run with those compositions go through the search function if they want to see/compare themselves against other non standard compositions outside of 2/2/4. That’s all I had to say for now, it’s 3am so apologies for the terrible grammar. ---
**Author:** ![Yunitera](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/yunitera/32/320_2.png) [@Yunitera](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Yunitera)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/32 "2016-11-27T08:12:44Z")
I don’t think you understand what regular and irregular comp means when you wrote down your opinion so it’s coming off the wrong way. No one is getting panelized for having same jobs in the same party for the current rankings. Like I said this discussion has a major focus on speed rankings which is not what Raid/Party Finder is about. Separating irregular/regular comps will not harm recruitment chances or dps view since like I said it’s about speed rankings. > [@Shtola](#): > > I think everyone here agrees that 1/1/6 compositions should be completely removed from the default rankings. Let the people who take the time to run with those compositions go through the search function if they want to see/compare themselves against other non standard compositions outside of 2/2/4. And no, please don’t generalize your opinion because not everyone wants irregular comps to be out completely. They have the right to be posted in the rankings but it just needs to have its own page of ranking/partition/segment streamline. ---
**Author:** ![Shtola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Shtola](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Shtola)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/33 "2016-11-27T08:19:42Z")
> [@Yunitera](#): > > No one is getting panelized for having same jobs in the same party for the current rankings. Not right now… but its been suggested above… > [@barin](#): > > To keep at least the speed kill competitive, implementing this kind of filter would be nice. Default ranking showing standard composition with no doubling up on jobs, and just add a toggle to show non-standard composition. > [/quote][quote=“Yunitera, post:32, topic:1896”] > And no, please don’t generalize your opinion because not everyone wants irregular comps to be out completely. Where did I mention to remove those rankings **completely**? You went from telling me to not generalize to making up stuff in a single sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Yunitera](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/yunitera/32/320_2.png) [@Yunitera](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Yunitera)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:41am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/34 "2016-11-27T08:41:13Z")
> [@Shtola](#): > > Not right now… but its been suggested above… Yes and Kihra does not agree with that suggestion. > [@Kihra](#): > > I don’t agree with this at all. You can see plenty of normal statics that happen to have 2 of a particular job. > [@Shtola](#): > > I think everyone here agrees that 1/1/6 compositions should be completely removed from the default rankings. ?? The default ranking right now is not the guild speed ranking and if regular comps do get their own speed rank then irregulars are 100% out of the picture. Also, define what you mean with default? Do you mean DPS parses? ---
**Author:** ![Amaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Amaret](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Amaret)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/35 "2016-11-27T09:05:52Z")
Don’t make it more complicated than it is. (At the guys debating what should be excluded and what not) A normal composition is 2 Tanks / 2 Healer / 4 DPS, which jobs they have shouldn’t be considered. Only the role is what matters. Also im against of completely remove irregular composition. They should have their own ranking with their own all stars. I know it’s a little bit much asked for, but the 2/2/4 Speed Ranking is the most healthy competitive ranking you can have right now in FFXIV. ---
**Author:** ![Shtola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Shtola](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Shtola)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/36 "2016-11-27T09:13:39Z")
> [@Yunitera](#): > > Yes and Kihra does not agree with that suggestion. And that somehow prevents me from sharing my opinion I guess? > [@Yunitera](#): > > The default ranking right now is not the guild speed ranking and if regular comps do get their own speed rank then irregulars are 100% out of the picture. Also, define what you mean with default? Do you mean DPS parses? Remove 1/1/6 or other variations from the default DPS rankings.I didn’t advocate to delete and prevent people from uploading those parses. My post hasn’t mentioned anything about speed/execution because I couldn’t care less about those ranks since I hang around in party finder. ---
**Author:** ![Yunitera](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/yunitera/32/320_2.png) [@Yunitera](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Yunitera)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 9:42am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/37 "2016-11-27T09:42:55Z")
No one said anything about removing dps ranking or separating them, maybe you are getting confused with separating speed ranks not dps ranks. Kihra mentioned separating speed ranks including dps/hps ranks for each category but that’s wasted effort since dps ranks are independent of speed clears due to padding, catering, inflation etc… I simply don’t agree with touching the current default dps ranks until core issues like padding/feeding/catering is solved. ---
**Author:** ![Shtola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Shtola](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Shtola)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/38 "2016-11-27T10:40:34Z")
This isn’t your thread, your opinion doesn’t count more than anyone else’s here and what you see as a core issue is nothing but a gimmick to me. I don’t care about speed rankings, no one cares about speed rankings if they don’t have a group and most groups would rather clear content over getting a speed kill. As I said, what you see as a core issue is just a gimmick to me and to a bunch of other people. I was directed to this thread for feedback and sadly for you, it isn’t titled “Make speedkills great again”. ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-canada1.s3.dualstack.ca-central-1.amazonaws.com/flex029/uploads/combatlogforums/original/1X/6651beac8a2608c494d68312e2f66921cd03c693.png) ---
**Author:** ![Yunitera](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/yunitera/32/320_2.png) [@Yunitera](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Yunitera)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/39 "2016-11-27T11:13:28Z")
I stated my opinion just like everybody else so whats the problem? Also you are deviating from the discussion point right now and just because I have a different opinion it doesn’t mean I’m telling you not to post yours. This thread started because of the speed ranking issue, otherwise this would still be in oblivion hence the links provided were from the speed ranking page directly after it was posted. That’s assuming you DID read all the posts, and all the core posts so far have been about speed ranking. BTW there is no need to be so defensive, we can all post how we think and agree or disagree with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Shtola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Shtola](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Shtola)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/40 "2016-11-27T14:33:18Z")
> [@Yunitera](#): > > I stated my opinion just like everybody else so whats the problem? Also you are deviating from the discussion point right now and just because I have a different opinion it doesn’t mean I’m telling you not to post yours. This thread started because of the speed ranking issue, otherwise this would still be in oblivion hence the links provided were from the speed ranking page directly after it was posted. That’s assuming you DID read all the posts, and all the core posts so far have been about speed ranking. BTW there is no need to be so defensive, we can all post how we think and agree or disagree with each other. You are so blinded by your speedrun rankings, it’s hilarious. Let me go through the first post with you: > [@thinking](#): > > Do you have any plans to seperate the ranking for cheese comps and normal comps? > **Is it time to exclude add damage on A9 like you did on the original Faust? The same problem applies now like back then.** [/quote] > Yes, people were padding on adds to boost their **individual dps** , no mention of your silly speedkills here. > > > [@thinking](#): > > > > Not many groups care for Faust Z where 6 DPS comps are more frequent, however when it comes to real fights rankings become skewed when 6 DPS comps are involved. Essentially it turns into two different brackets considering the difference between #1 A9 (6 DPS) and #2 A9 (4 DPS) is almost one minute. > > > > #1 A9 > > #2 A9 > > Okay, now we can talk about speed rankings, or can we? There’s a 3.5k+ difference on overall DPS between those two reports. You can talk about two brackets regarding speedkills just as much as having two brackets for DPS. > > > [@thinking](#): > > > > Care to set the default ranking comp to 4 DPS/2 Tanks/2 Healer and banish 6 DPS comps or give them a seperate tab like “All Bosses”/“In All Regions”/“For All Patches”? Call it “Alternative Compositions”? > > ありがとうございました。 > > Great, someone making a suggestion to prevent people from being where they shouldn’t be in the rankings, Oh is that the end of the post? That’s a shame, I haven’t seen a single mention about your precious speedkills. Plenty of people have talked about the dps rankings in this thread, including yourself, yet you still fail to see that both are partially bound to each other.[quote=“Amaret, post:3, topic:1896”] > DPS ranking is already getting cheesed enough > [@Yunitera](#): > > It’s extremely demotivating to even post anything on FFlogs because individual dps is cheesed > [@throwaway](#): > > It crossed my mind, but all I see in the top 10 are people doing it to boost one player. > [@thinking](#): > > appreciate you acknowledging the problem with cheesing such as feeding buffs or feeding adds to a single person. As it is right now Player Damage Rankings are not accurate, especially on A9. This turn is essentially the real Faust v2 considering groups afk on this fight until the third add wave spawns so one single person can gain a massive amount of AOE damage on all add waves while being boosted by external buffs. A similiar trend can be seen on certain A12 adds > [@thinking](#): > > Individual DPS, HPS, etc. rankings are distorted anyway for reasons stated in my last post […] > > 1. Can you clean up add damage influence on A9 (Refurbisher 0) and eventually A12 (Alexander Prime) just like you did on Faust in “The Fist of the Father”? Damage done to adds distorts individual rankings by alot of groups if they cater to one single person (aka letting one person do all the damage to adds while the rest of the group goes afk, just like on the original Faust). To make things worse for you, those two last quotes come from the OP itself. Maybe you should be the one asking yourself if you’ve gone through all the posts, including your own. Nice attempt at backpedalling earlier but that didn’t work out too well for you. Feel free to counter all the quotes that I have listed but I don’t think you’ll have much success with that. I’m not expecting a reply from you at this point so its all good if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Yunitera](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forums.combatlogforums.com/yunitera/32/320_2.png) [@Yunitera](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/u/Yunitera)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896/41 "2016-11-27T14:54:45Z")
lol… The OP is a friend of mine who linked the thread for me to post here and he posted this asap after the cheese comp was posted through speed rankings page. The reason this was linked to me is because midcore/hardcore raiders within statics have more insight on the matter than people who barely raid or PF. We are competitive after all. The fact that you have been disregarding speed kills and the topic revolving around it already tells a lot so I won’t waste much time trying to understand your logic or thinking. * * * Anyway, to continue the discussion-- I posted some thought on the current issue with DPS ranking: > [@The "Real DPS" Project](http://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/the-real-dps-project/1730/21): > > This does sound complicated in terms of stripping buffs. To state the current issues with the current parses: Party members not hitting adds to inflate a single party member’s dps. Using all the party buffs for the convenience of one party member such as balance, litany, hyper charge etc… Double jobs such as 2 mch, 2 bard, 2 astros and feed all the buffs to a single party member. Doing mechanics for a certain party member and having deaths to compensate for other mechanics. I’m not sure if I… [Previous page](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.combatlogforums.com/t/6-dps-1-tank-1-healer-and-other-cheese/1896.md?page=3)